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Poster: Purple Gel Date: May 31, 2010 4:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

I am so sick and tired of lazy journalists. Israel's Kent State?? Obama's Katrina?? Doesn't anyone in the media have original thoughts? Does every misstep have to be a "gate". Every site or channel you tune into will have some variation of these descriptions.

Comparing the Oil Spill to Katrina makes it seem like it's ok, we've been through this before, when in reality we have never seen anything like the man (corporate) made environmental disaster in the Gulf.

Comparing Israel's deliberate actions in the waters off Gaza to Kent State, which was, by most accounts a failure of command, is also ludicrous. Kent State, as horrible as it was, was a one time incident. Israel's actions are a continuation of bloodshed that has gone on for various reasons for milenia in that region.

Aren't these stories important and horrifying enough to stand on their own as individual tragedies. It seems to me that making these lazy comparisons waters down the significance of these events.

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Jun 2, 2010 11:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

>the worst man made disaster ever

The Holocaust
Or pick one of Mao's; The Totalization Period, The Great Leap Forward, The Great Famine and Retrenchment Period, Cultural Revolution
Stalin's Purges
Armenian genocide

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Poster: angular Date: Jun 2, 2010 3:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Worst man made disasters>

Vienna sausages
Wham!
Yugo
Jonas Brothers

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 31, 2010 9:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Well I would imagine that if you can film drowning people you can rescue them, I would think that if you can drill a well you should be ale to plug it. I'm kind of thinking that no one has the answer for the oil spill but Katrina was pretty f-ing obvious.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: May 31, 2010 9:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

You would think , but no . Depth of 1 mile , on an uneven 'ocean ' floor , leaking in multiple areas , on a sideways , 45' angle pipe . Of all the above . it's the pressure ( depth ) that is a real tough nut . Humans operate in space much better then 1 mile down in the water . Very limited in time and functionality down there . There is no high % way to cap , as of today .

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Poster: barongsong Date: May 31, 2010 10:40pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

So, Golly gee, I guess drilling isn't as safe as they've been telling us. No safety net mechanics and no way to fix it. This is as bad as the dumb-ass that created an artificial mud volcano in Java, http://www.thebalitimes.com/2010/05/28/java-mud-volcano-still-gushing-four-years-on/ and we just chalked it up to lax Indonesian regulations. Go figure

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Poster: micah6v8 Date: Jun 1, 2010 6:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

This is the extreme edge of drilling tech. from what I have been able to glean . I am not an engineer nor in the oil biz . so it's just 'book ' knowledge.
The arguement stands . To Easy to just cast stones . What kind of ' house ' would you build to replace oil with , to meet our growing energy needs ?

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jun 1, 2010 8:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

I'll cast stones - from what I have heard from people in the oil biz up here is in their opinion the preventer was installed backwards on purpose to get it to fit ie they new it was defective and wouldn't fit the correct way. Now this is just a perzsons opinion but what isn't opinion is if they had been actually checking it ( not pencil whipping it ) then they would have seen it was bad.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jun 1, 2010 9:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

I'll cast my stone right with ya Jots - the oil industry and the government are so entrenched under the same sheets, you cannot tell one from the other anymore.

Our government is an absolute disgrace and an embarrassment - no matter who the great people of this country vote into office, the result always seems to come out the same. the populace and our environment get screwed every time!

Mando is most assuredly on the right track....

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jun 1, 2010 9:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

yeah well don't throw the baby out with the bathwater I say. Example - FDA, they don't always do such a swell job with Food and drugs but what's the alternative? Self or market policing as the Libertarians like to fantasize about? YEAH RIGHT! And I know from first hand experience that the FDA is VERY good at regulating blood products which are extremely safe now as a result. IMO we need to see what is working regulatory wise and model after that. We need to remember that Government isn't a sperate private entity, us lazy citizens need to get more invol;ved, more than just by voting.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jun 1, 2010 9:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

the baby most likely wont get thrown out with the bathwater, but the baby is certainly starting to drown. i agree the FDA is basically pretty good at getting things right (if a bit too slow at times), as is the EPA (not perfect, but...) yes, i was being a bit hyperbolic in my post about the government being basically useless - they are just too easy to buy. lobbyists and lying have run amok - it is going to be VERY difficult "fixing" that - there has never been a government in world history (as far as i know) that money and greed has not basically "run the show."

i dont know what the alternative is either. but the path down which this country is headed WILL force change upon us at some point - and it is probably going to be a very difficult chnge in the beginning. it may be after our lifetime, but probably within the lives of our children.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jun 1, 2010 10:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

" i dont know what the alternative is either"

imo the alternative is for people to wake the f up and stop defending this corporate takeover of the government. People need to stop believing the bullshit. PRIME example, people love to wave their plastic made in China American flags but can't seem to make the connection between war and $$$$$. Anyone who thinks corporations are totally out of control with what they get away with is automatically branded a " socialist", people actually think the media is " liberal" and yet the only real news is buried down on public broadcasting that MOST people don't watch.

The bottom line is people are very easily preyed upon with emotion to direct their anger at the wrong sources and to defend entities that will sell their ass out in a second. Look how crazy the evangelicals can get - they vote soley on these BS moral causes but the people they vote for KNOW that they have no intention of banning abortion etc but these fools keep voting against their own interests just because of the lip servce given to their pet cause.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jun 1, 2010 11:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

I could not agree with you any more wholeheartedly!!!

sad to think it will take an economic catastrophe far worse than last/this year's to truly even attempt to do anything (or so it seems to me, from what i have seen so far)

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 1, 2010 11:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

But why poop in your own house ? Yeah , I know , general human stupidity . But here are some consequences already . Penny wise for billions foolish perhaps ?
From WSJ today( one of the last remaining papers doing their job , PG )
BP stock price down 12 % today , knocking off 17 billion of BP 's market value . Today's estimate is that BP 's liability is 990 million for the oil leak in the Gulf . That number will change , only going much higher . Insuring BP's debt has also become much harder for them , as banks jack their rates and credit is much harder to obtain . London is very concerned over this , as many large funds are heavily invested in BP . The Gulf supplies 14 % of BP's worldwide production , and renewal of their future licensing contracts is highly in doubt . And this is the beginning of the beginning .

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Jun 2, 2010 12:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

BP has lost $70 billion in equity since this thing started. The conspiracy theorists are so far out in left field on this one it's just ridiculous. There is no upside for the oil company taking short cuts or cheaping out on these ventures.

I don't ever agree with Obama but he was right and is right about the safety of these rigs. The record proves it. There are over 5000 wells in the Gulf, 500 of them are deep sea wells, and only one of them is leaking. That's a pretty damn good record!

No one goes through life perfect. The priority here is plugging the leak and cleaning up this mess. The time for investigations and prosecutions will come. Please remember that tens of thousands of people are dependant on these companies for their existence. Tearing them apart through ridiculous accusations and endless speculation directly affects people’s lives.

"Think this through with me, let me know your mind
Wo-oh, what I want to know is, are you kind?"

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Jun 2, 2010 12:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

BP has lost $70 billion in equity since this thing started. The conspiracy theorists are so far out in left field on this one it's just ridiculous. There is no upside for the oil company taking short cuts or cheaping out on these ventures.

I don't ever agree with Obama but he was right and is right about the safety of these rigs. The record proves it. There are over 5000 wells in the Gulf, 500 of them are deep sea wells, and only one of them is leaking. That's a pretty damn good record!

No one goes through life perfect. The priority here is plugging the leak and cleaning up this mess. The time for investigations and prosecutions will come. Please remember that tens of thousands of people are dependant on these companies for their existence. Tearing them apart through ridiculous accusations and endless speculation directly affects people’s lives.

"Think this through with me, let me know your mind
Wo-oh, what I want to know is, are you kind?"

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Jun 1, 2010 4:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Does our growing energy demand outweigh the need for healthy food and water?

These needs do not have to be mutually exclusive. It is possible to make a transition to clean energy sources, but this will come at some cost because our current way of life is built upon and around the use of dirty cheap energy sources. It will take a significant and costly restructuring to move away from this.

The costs of this transition will be used by energy companies and the people they pay as well as the people who naive enough to believe them to dissuade us from and work to slow this inevitable process. The corporations in the energy industry are scared of any change in the status quo which will reduce the demand for what they are profiting from.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jun 3, 2010 2:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

"What kind of ' house ' would you build to replace oil with , to meet our growing energy needs ? "

To make the analogy work you'd have to consider how long it took to build the house of oil -- then give solar, renewables, efficiency, and new tech as much "incentives" and tax breaks as oil, gas, and coal.

You'd be shocked to find out how much has been given to oil, gas, and coal -- and that's apart from the cost of pollution because that cost is barely reflected in the price of oil.

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Poster: ledlightingwholesale Date: Jun 15, 2012 12:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Actually I wouldn't be shocked. We spend enormous amounts of money on the least eco-friendly and energy inefficient solutions I have ever seen. If we focused more attention on energy saving sustainable products like Wind Power, Solar Power and LED Lighting the planet would be in much better shape.
http://www.ledlightingwholesale.com

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jun 1, 2010 6:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

I don't disagree but I think that is a different argument than the one that is being discussed here. I don't think the question is why do we need to drill a mile down in the gulf, the question was more about how it is being reported on.

For example on April 2nd after signing the energy bill that allowed more off-shore drilling, President Obama made the following statement regarding the safety of wells. ""It turns out, by the way, that oil rigs today generally don’t cause spills. They are technologically very advanced."

The question is whether it is appropriate to call such a statement Obama's "the fundamentals of the economy are sound" moment. I agree with Purple Gel that it is lazy to make these comparisons and frankly they don't solve anything.

As for your question I think the other part is how much oversight do these companies that profit from our inability to curb our energy addition have? Not just oil. Don't forget those coal miners who died several weeks back in what appeared to be a very unsafe work environment.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 1, 2010 1:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead) / Coal Miners

Oh , come all you young fellows , so young and so fine
Seek not your fortune in a dark , dreary mine
It'll form as a habit , and seep in your soul
Till the stream of your blood runs as black as the coal
Merle Travis

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-06-01 20:26:43

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Poster: ducats Date: Jun 1, 2010 2:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead) / Coal Miners

milk blood to keep from running out

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 1, 2010 12:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead) / Coal Miners

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhc55qjHHXs (for the miners)

And why he was on No Nukes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b54rB64fXY4&;NR=1

BTW, Clive's first signee to Arista.

This post was modified by bluedevil on 2010-06-01 19:03:30

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Jun 1, 2010 8:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Has anyone stopped to consider that the two relief drilling efforts are, umm, also wells? Hope they use the right BOPs on those.

What pisses me off about this is how both sides are trying to make political capital out of a disaster. None of those disingenuous fucks on Capitol Hill could give a rat's ass about the people affected in the Gulf. Just as long as they can either manufacture more votes for themselves and/or less votes for the "other" side.

I personally can't wait for the confluence of events, the "Perfect Storm" of Peak Oil and our National Debt to cause such a systemic shock that ouor way of life changes. Not because it's a good idea but simply because it must change.

Got Community?

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 1, 2010 11:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Financially , it feels like 1787 in France . Got seeds , community , and firearms ? No survivalist foaming mouth here , just looking at the landscape of debt . Black Swan events happen suddenly and rock your world ( Black Swan theory by Nassim Taleb ) . We are getting closer to either massive tax hikes , eviscerating spending cuts or monetizing the debt . For a picture of the latter I refer you to the Weimar Republics' 1923 hyper - inflation ( the cruelest tax of all ). Bring a wheelbarrow of paper money for that milk and bread . One way or another.......

BTW - we as a people need to stop using our children and grandchildren as credit cards . It's unseemly , unconscionable , and history will cast it's eye to us in a most unflattering way . We are better then this .

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Jun 1, 2010 2:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Micah -

I have gone on about this at great length in many past posts. It has been a central point of study for the past 7 years for me.

The only objection - no, that's too strong and negative sounding - let's try "observation", is that your verb tense is wrong.

The Federal Reserve has already monetized our debt. It is their only option now IMO. The only possible way to walk back from the brink of Weimar, Argentina and Zimbabwe is to monetize and inflate our way out of this mess. The trick is managing the ensuing inflationary pressure. In theory it can work. But then we go back to business as usual with Keynesian economics and the whold debt based monetary system reasserts itself and the cycle repeats.

The reality is the idiocracy on Capitol Hill will only see another pool of liquidity to borrow against - and the hole will get deeper.

I would give the chance of success a generous 5%-10% chance of success. The same knot heads who got us in this mess are the same ones to lead us out?????

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 1, 2010 3:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Mando ,
I agree that my verb tense Is probably wrong . Just my ( futile ? ) glass half - full general approach . Can we please have FoI and total transparency re: the Fed . It seems we have slid to an awful mercantile - capitalist system ; where the state decides who is to big to fail and who isn't . Where the state is also a competitor against private concerns - while the state has the ultimate rainy day fund as a backstop , and can thus never be bested by price , efficiency , or better service . And to some of our business people , What's the deal , good year you keep the profits , bad year " too big to fail " . That Ain't working for me .
However , do you trust any of these people to handle the post - monetizing of the debt , and the insane hyper- inflation that would follow . I do not . I long since left Keynesian theory . Might I rec. F. A. Hayek and his book, The Road to Serfdom . Ludwig von Mises work I also recommend .

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Jun 2, 2010 9:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Michah -

A true capitalistic society could easily fnction on its own - assuming of course that the monetary system that fuels the engine is based on sovereign credit instead of being loaned into existence as debt. That is our current model and it sucks. Exacerbating things is the fact that the organization charged with oversight of our debt based system - the Fed - isn't transparent. One could argue that the Central Banking system has outlived its usefulness - like unions and the Designated Hitter.

Hayek's "Serfdom" is a good work but a little doomer for me. I think the resiliency of the American people (and other countries) is greatly underestimated. We just haven't had a big enough systemic shock to force meaningful change within the system. Such a shock isn't going to happen until we reach a tipping point of awareness of just how fooked up things are.

I think you are starting to see the first rumblings in the Tea Party Movement. I'm not a Tea Party guy, I am a pure Constitutionalist. Mainstream Media is still trying to marginalize the Tea Party crowd as a fad and they might be right. Early on if you asked the "average" Tea Party bubba what they are all fired up about they will tell you "I'm mad" but they can't elaborate or qualify what it is they are mad about. Now, it seems like more and more of them (and us) are fed up with business as usual in DC. There is a growing sense that "business as usual" is part of the problem and as such, I would expect people to mount very successful runs at incumbents.

Once these people realize that the single largest threat to our National Security is our $100 trillion plus debt (obligated and unobligated) more and more will realize that the size of our Federal government and its runaway spending practices are the sole cause I would expect a top to bottom house cleaning.

Throw in the fact that there is no more cheap and easily available oil - all the oil that there was to discover in the world was discovered by 1964 - and that our "leaders" have absolutely no clue or forward vision on workable renewable energy alternatives and we have the ingredients for the "Perfect Storm".

The cool thing is - even if we don't do anything the problem solves itself. The debt machine will collapse under its own weight and when there is no more oil, we will be forced to figure something else out. How's that for true nonpartisanship?

First Iceland, then Greece, with Spain and Portugal waiting in the wings? How long before people wake up and realize that our debt burden is 700 times our GDP? Greece's was only 135%. We may be a big heavy domino, but we are just another domino in the chain that will surely fall.

And I'm not sure von Mises and his Austrian school is the right answer because they still allow for the issuance of credit (as debt) and we all know where that model ends up.

Great discussion.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 3, 2010 3:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Mando -
Sorry if this is too late but I've been thinking about your post . A few questions - How do you create seed capitol for private concerns without debt ? And the state will always issue bonds , even with a balanced budget . How do handle liquidity without credit ?

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Jun 8, 2010 9:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Micah -

I'm even later with the response - damn 3 day weekends.

It's pretty easy actually. Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution gives Congress the authority to "coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of Weights and Measures." It also says that Congress will have the power to "borrow money on the 'credit' of the United States.

If the money was originally created as sovereign credit, borrowing against something that already has value is easy. We would also need to change the fractional banking system to actually require the banks to hold more of the sovereign credit money that is deposited. The problem we are all now familiar with is when you take existing debt and come up with derivatives of the original debt, and then create more derivatives.

So if this money were created as sovereign credit - meaining it would have to be used to "buy" things - it would then circulate as money with purchasing power. Instead, for whatever reason, money today is loaned into existence as interest bearing debt, or a claim on someone's future labor. By itself that might be okay except Congress abdicated their responsibility for oversight of this process and gave it a central banking system known as the Federal Reserve. There is nothing 'federal" about the Fed. We desperately need to shine a bright light on that den of cockroaches.

All that said, I don't think the framers of our Constitution ever envisioned a Congress so inept that collectively they couldn't pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the sole.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jun 3, 2010 2:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

The "Austrians" have some good points about business cycles, but what the town has no need to be nervous about the reincarnation of the Hayak and von Mises horse.

Hayak's support of Pinochet is enough proof, but consider also he was inspiration to Milton Friedman, Reagan, Bush. And Ron Paul has some good criticisms of American govt but avoids the real issues of the public and private spheres.

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: May 31, 2010 6:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

posted by me - during the Strengths & Grievences thread

dn_logo.png

DemocracyNow! news-hour
is run by Amy Goodman

Strength
Juan Gonzales
Strength
Amy Goodman
amy-and-juan.jpg
Democracy Now! is funded entirely through contributions from listeners, viewers, and foundations. We do not accept advertisers, corporate underwriting, or government funding. This allows us to maintain our independence.

super-Strength
the DemocracyNow! crew
staff_pic_2009.jpg

— note —
We can look forward to tomorrow's War & Peace Report on Democracy Now. I believe we will be getting full coverage of the Gaza relief massacre. This was a War Crime. We need Peace!

Do you believe anything BP or "The Press Corps" is saying right now? They are stenographers, and cheerleaders for War. In the meantime, we've lost our way of life, and Our Planet is dying.
Oil Gusher webcam

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Poster: bluedevil Date: May 31, 2010 10:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

But it IS Obama's Katrina (really):

http://vodpod.com/watch/3596434-release-the-kagan

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Jun 1, 2010 8:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

I'd like to second Purple Gel's disgust and exasperation with the labels media love to affix to disasters, whether man-made or natural, and it IS lazy journalism at a time when attention spans are so short we now resort to movie-style "elevator pitches" in order to keep anyone interested in a story. It degrades the essence of what's really happening, discourages rational discourse, and reduces all argument to predictable sound-bytes ready-made for either the left or right to throw at each other while Rome (or in this case the gulf of mexico) burns down to shit.

As the Daily Show clip BD provided points out correctly this is NOT Obama's "Katrina"...but it's going to become that as a perception because outlets like Fox have latched on to it with a death grip to politicize and give their talking heads something to spew venom about.

Meanwhile, I'd dare Rudy Guliani and Sarah Palin start up their "Drill Baby Drill" chant again, but i'm guessing they're going to keep that one under wraps at least until August.

And just for the record, I take issue (respectfully, as I wish others would as well) with PG's assessment of the shitstorm brewing yet again w/Israel...while I am NOT one to defend the strong-arm tactics of the Netanyahu right wing (I am completely appalled at the continued Israeli settlements and the draconian measures of the blockade on Gaza in general), I'd like to know how many "peace activists" attack ANYONE with weapons on a PEACE MISSION, whether their ship has been raided or not? If they were TRULY "peace activists" they would not have disarmed some of those soldiers and threatened them with their own weapons. The Israeli actions were clearly over-aggressive, misguided, and WRONG, but so were the actions of those who put the lives of those soldiers at risk. If you're going to call yourself a peace activist, you have a responsibility to act as one. (Ask MLK, Jr. or Mahatma Ghandi, who could teach those people a thing or two.)

Fact is, when it comes to the Middle East mess, there is more than enough blame to go around on BOTH sides (rockets continue to be fired on civilians in northern Israel, and Hamas is still a terrorist organization, whether popularly elected (and what does THAT say about the Palestinians?) or not.

Please don't take this as full support of what Israel did in this instance, or in their overall treatment of Palestinians, but in the spirit of in fact trying to avoid superficial labels and sound bytes, I think that conflict is most definitely one colored by shades of grey rather than black-and-white blame.

This post was modified by grendelschoice on 2010-06-01 15:35:48

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Poster: rastamon Date: Jun 1, 2010 11:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

if one can be a suicide bomber for Jihad/extremists, don't u think it's easy to get a boatload of propaganda a-goin? 9 dead with 72virgins, mission accomplished!
Hooray Palestine! yer plan worked.

Hamas good-Jews BAD!

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 1, 2010 12:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

I do not understand your post rasta .
The Jewish people have been hunted for some 5,769 years . For that neighborhood , and such a small 'tribe' , their survival is remarkable . Anti - semitism (which I accuse no one of ) is on the rise globally , again . What about Never Again ? - guess Cambodia and Rwanda answered that question .

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-06-01 19:11:37

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Poster: rastamon Date: Jun 1, 2010 1:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

I was being sarcastic...I think Hamas planned that situation. I am pro-Israel.

On the pipeline, I have my doubts about the initial "accident". Is the labor force for BP well's-well screened? huh? (boy, this new 420crop is gooood!) Yeah, a small nuke would fuse that pipe shut, or mebe a little Livermore Laser Fusion?

there are no limits to conspiracy- hahahaha

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 1, 2010 1:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Thanks rasta .
I do not know what really happened this week-end . Who does ? The Mossad ? , The Russians ? , The Iranians ? The Jews / Arabs are like a couple who wants a divorce , but they both want the house . And both are not going to leave . That soil is mixed with five millenia worth of blood . It's sad. I have no answer . Maybe there isn't one .

Now to radically segue > If you could , how Was your week-end ?

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jun 3, 2010 3:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

"I do not know what really happened this week-end . Who does ? The Mossad ? , The Russians ? , The Iranians ? The Jews / Arabs are like a couple who wants a divorce , but they both want the house . And both are not going to leave . That soil is mixed with five millenia worth of blood . It's sad. I have no answer . Maybe there isn't one ."


Talk about lazy journalism!

Come on, who are the Arabs? "five millenia worth of blood" is straight ignorance. You probably think Jews are "white" people too. Man, I bet those sentences will be misunderstood too.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 3, 2010 8:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Oh , indeed they are . Grab a history book re: the amount of blood shed in that area . Let's just go back to the battle of Kadesh for some of that bloodletting . We could go further . And this , " .. Jews are white people ... " ? ; no , just human beings like All of us .

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jun 4, 2010 1:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

There should be little surprise that there is a history war in the Middle East -- civilization started there! The ME, not just Greece and Rome, is the "Ancestor of the West" -- check out Jean Bottéro for background.

Bloodshed is probably worse among the Europeans and descendants, with a rich tradition from ethnic cleansing of rival species (and some intermarrying with Neanderthals) and on to Alexander and Rome. World domination and internal wars have been far worse than everywhere else for over 500 years.

Who else but us whiteys could have imagined that the gathering of the Europeans tribes in "the promised land" of America would create the manifest destiny of a fearful country armed to the teeth waiting to be snatched up by a heavenly chariot as a reward for destroying the earth's riches and presiding over vast corruption and denigration of the human soul.

I'm too lazy to impose more.

This post was modified by spacedface on 2010-06-04 20:24:41

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Poster: rastamon Date: Jun 1, 2010 1:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

my weekend was so-so....couldn't afford Mountain Aire, not even fer a day.
Oh well

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 1, 2010 1:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

Tancredo/Palin 2012!
(or is it the other way around?)

Just kidding (god, I hope so) - but sincerely hope you had fun at Furthur

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 31, 2010 7:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

I agree that the journalists are lazy, however not because they are making comparisons, its because they are making the wrong comparisons and they aren't the only ones. Not to pick on you but your the second person who at this site has called this the worst man made disaster ever. It very well may be the case and I am in no way trying to downplay it although time will tell how it stacks up to what happened in Bhopal, India in December 1984 when Union Carbide accidentally let 40 tons of methylisocyanate gas into the atmosphere killing somewhere between 4000-8000 people within 3 days and up to 25,000 overall. There were 120,000 injured and I'm not sure if that includes all the birth defects after the disaster. Now for the kicker, the plant was never cleaned up. It is still a toxic waste dump leaking into the water table over 25 years later.

I don't believe anyone at Union Carbide (now owned by Dow Chemical) was ever brought to any justice nor did the company do much of anything to help those people.

I think the reason they compare to Katrina and not Bhopal is because they aren't comparing the disasters, they are comparing the gov't response. W deservedly took a bunch of heat for his (lack of) response. Obama at least has had the courage to admit that his statements about the safety of off-shore drilling from a few months ago were not correct, but that hasn't stopped the oil and gas from flowing into the gulf. I hope he won't BP walk free like those schmucks from Dow.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jun 1, 2010 4:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

>the worst man made disaster ever

Chernobyl?

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jun 1, 2010 4:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

most estimates don't put it close to Bhopal in terms of effect on human life (about 100 dead at the accident and sadly several thousand have died of cancer since then). However who knows what is actually correct and what the impact on the environment locally was.

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Poster: utopian Date: Jun 1, 2010 9:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

Check out the 'yes men' on YouTube. They pull corporate hoaxes and fake press releases. One is with Dow chemical , union carbide and the Bhopal disaster.


Corrected death toll From wikipedia-
Estimates vary on the death toll. The official immediate death toll was 2,259 and the government of Madhya Pradesh has confirmed a total of 3,787 deaths related to the gas release.[1] Other government agencies estimate 15,000 deaths.[2] Others estimate that 8,000 died within the first weeks and that another 8,000 have since died from gas-related diseases.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jun 1, 2010 9:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

I used ranges (4000-8000) and carefully worded (up to 25000 overall) in that first post because i found it very difficult to get an accurate number and I think the wiki quote points to that issue. I think part of the problem with the deaths that were not immediately following the gas leak is that the exposure left people immunocompromised and therefore susceptible to infectious diseases. Thus the direct cause of death might not have been gas exposure, however it likely played a significant role in many deaths. I think this is why many sites have inflated the gov't numbers.

In the end it is still a tragedy unlike any we have ever accidentally (negligently) inflicted on ourselves.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Jun 1, 2010 1:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

When I said "we have never seen anything like the man (corporate) made environmental disaster in the Gulf.", I was talking about here in the US, not world wide. I should have been more clear on that point.

Here's one example of how "lazy" journalism works. O'Reilly, Hannity, Beck, or some other Fox commentator makes a comment. For argument sake let's say it is the Obama's Katrina comment (I don't know if this particular comment originated there or not).

1) Hannity says it on his show.
2) O'Reilly repeats it.
3) A couple of hours later, Fox News reports that "people" are calling this Obama's Katrina.

Are they? Well, yeah, I guess you could say that they are people, but this is an insidious and underhanded way to turn editorial commentary into News. It's all done in house, and it's done by a "News" organization to further a political point of view.

Other "News" outlets, i.e. CNN, MSNBC, Huffington Post et al pick up on this and don't really do any research (LAZY), or they see it as a catchall phrase that encapsulates the issue into a soundbite that we, the great unwashed, can understand, all of a sudden it's a legitimate viewpoint that is viewed as conventional wisdom.

Does this happen on the left as well? I'm sure it does. The difference is that Fox is so huge, that they can steer the debate and influence the result.

Shame on any News organization (Left or Right) that manufactures the News or becomes part of the News. Shame on any organisation that repeats the "News" without properly researching it.

Henry Mencken (thanks for the correction Bluedevil) said: "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people".

This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2010-06-01 20:21:39

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 1, 2010 2:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

I hate that quote by Mencken . Nose in the air , elitist fuck . He should have been so glad to live in the US during his time , then say Russia or China . Then again , maybe he would have fit right in . From Pasternaks' Dr. Zhivago , I can see Mencken roaring down the track in his red train , like Strelnikov .

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-06-01 21:07:27

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 1, 2010 2:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

How was he wrong? Or how wrong is this phrase:
"In the end, Americans get the government they deserve."

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Poster: ducats Date: Jun 1, 2010 2:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

The USA is the greatest civilization (or whatever word you would like to insert, call it an experiment for all I care) ever known to human kind, and imo will always be, hence its extremely intelligent populace gets the govt it wants.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 1, 2010 2:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

Hey, hey, hey ...
Give the people what they want

Well, it's been said before, the world is a stage
A different performance with every age.
Open up the history book to any old page
Bring on the lions and open the cage.

Give the people what they want
You gotta give the people what they want
The more they get, the more they need
And every time they get harder and harder to please

The Roman promoters really did things right.
They needed a show that would clearly excite.
The attendance was sparse so they put on a fight
Threw the Christians to the lions, sold out every night

Give the people what they want
You gotta give the people what they want
The more they get, the more they need
And every time they get harder and harder to please

Give 'em lots of sex, perversion and rape
Give 'em lots of violence, and plenty to hate
Give the people what they want
Give the people what they want

Hey, hey, hey ...

When Oswald shot Kennedy, he was insane
But still we watch the re-runs again and again
We all sit glued while the killer takes aim

"Hey Mom, there goes a piece of the president's brain!"

Give the people what they want
You gotta give the people what they want
Blow out your brains, and do it right
Make sure it's prime time and on a Saturday night.

You gotta give the people what they want
You gotta give the people what they want
Give the people what they want
Give the people what they want
Give the people what they want

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGcwpJgge6g

Elitist British wanker....

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Jun 1, 2010 3:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

we "deserve" Enron, we deserve the S&L debacle, we deserve to be lied into war ?, we deserve the the housing collaspe, the job losses, the lies ??

No we don't.... I would have loved to be born in New Zealand?

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 1, 2010 3:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

Hey, watched the Enron doc last night "Smartest Guys in the Room". Very well done. And very distrubing. Mark to market accounting....

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jun 1, 2010 3:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

Granted , he was a prolific and complicated man . I particularly dislike that quote and the mind set behind the words . Things that raise an eyebrow - His belief in a ' natural aristocracy ' . His love of Nietzsche , including writing the forward to his book , The Anti - Christ . He wrote this little douzy there , " Here the intellectual cynicism of the Jew almost counter - balances his social unpleasantness . " His disdain for the masses who were not part of the ' natural aristocracy " , of which that quote you quoted is a prime example . ( I'm a quote , your a quote , wouldn't ya like to be a quote , too )

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-06-01 22:23:21

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 1, 2010 3:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

No doubt he was a raging anti-semite.

On totally different tangent, David Brooks had intersting op-ed in NY Times re how this is not Obama's Katrina, and I thought his analysis was pretty right on:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

May 31, 2010
The Oil Plume
By DAVID BROOKS
The failure of the top-kill technique in the Gulf of Mexico represents an interesting turning point on the Obama presidency. It symbolizes the end of the period of lightning advance and the beginning of the period of nasty stasis.

President Obama swept into office having aroused the messianic hopes of his supporters. For the past 16 months he has been on nearly permanent offense, instigating action with the stimulus bill, Afghan policy, health care reform and the nearly complete financial reform. Whether you approve or not, this has been an era of bold movement.

But now the troops are exhausted, the country is anxious, the money is spent and the Democratic majorities are teetering. The remaining pieces of legislation, on immigration and energy, are going nowhere. (The decision to do health care before energy is now looking extremely unfortunate.)

Meanwhile, the biggest problems are intractable. There’s no sign we will be successful in preventing a nuclear Iran. Especially after Monday’s events, there’s no chance of creating a breakthrough in the Arab-Israeli dispute. Unemployment will not be coming down soon. The long-term fiscal crisis won’t be addressed soon either.

In other words, if the theme of the past 16 months was large change, the theme of the next period will be gridlock and government’s apparent impotence in the face of growing problems.

And, at this particular moment, we are confronted by the picture of an uncontrolled gusher of oil spewing destruction into the gulf. This image could be with us for another few months, searing into the national consciousness and becoming the defining image of 2010.

Everybody is comparing the oil spill to Hurricane Katrina, but the real parallel could be the Iranian hostage crisis. In the late 1970s, the hostage crisis became a symbol of America’s inability to take decisive action in the face of pervasive problems. In the same way, the uncontrolled oil plume could become the objective correlative of the country’s inability to govern itself.

The plume taps into a series of deep anxieties. First, it taps into the anxiety that the people running our major institutions are just not that competent. Second, it feeds into the anxiety that there has been an unhappy marriage between corporations and government officials, which has had the effect of corrupting both. Most important, the plume exposes the country’s core confusion about the role of government.

When this country was born, the founders laid down strict roles for the federal government and the president. But over the years, the roles of government and the presidency have expanded.

As a matter of conviction, the country is deeply uncomfortable with these expansions. Operationally, on the other hand, the country has become accustomed to the new programs and to the new presidential role.

In times of crisis, you get a public reaction that is incoherence on stilts. On the one hand, most people know that the government is not in the oil business. They don’t want it in the oil business. They know there is nothing a man in Washington can do to plug a hole a mile down in the gulf.

On the other hand, they demand that the president “take control.” They demand that he hold press conferences, show leadership, announce that the buck stops here and do something. They want him to emote and perform the proper theatrical gestures so they can see their emotions enacted on the public stage.

They want to hold him responsible for things they know he doesn’t control. Their reaction is a mixture of disgust, anger, longing and need. It may not make sense. But it doesn’t make sense that the country wants spending cuts and doesn’t want cuts, wants change and doesn’t want change.

At some point somebody’s going to have to reach a national consensus on the role of government. If this disaster teaches anything, it is that we are a venturesome, entrepreneurial society. We rely on corporations like BP to bring us energy. At the same time, it is clear that even well-meaning corporations sometimes take shortcuts when it comes to controlling pollution and protecting worker safety.

So we want government to regulate business. We want regulation to be strong enough to reduce risk but not so strong as to stifle innovation. We want regulators to work cooperatively but not be captured by those they monitor.

We have known, for a long time, that regulation is about balance. The proper regulatory regime has to be set case by case and year by year.

We should be able to build from cases like this one and establish a set of concrete understandings about what government should and shouldn’t do. We should be able to have a grounded conversation based on principles 95 percent of Americans support. Yet that isn’t happening. So the period of stagnations begins.




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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Jun 1, 2010 3:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

You ever notice nobody compares any disaster to the Good Friday Massacre of 1984 between the Montreal Canadiens and the Quebec Nordiques?

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jun 1, 2010 1:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

"Shame on any News organization (Left or Right) that manufactures the News or becomes part of the News. Shame on any organisation that repeats the "News" without properly researching it."

Amen.

So I was listening this morning to NPR and was surprised to learn that this isn't even the biggest oil spill to have occurred in the Gulf. Apparently there was a 3.5 million gallon spill near Mexico. Sadly if the latest estimates are correct and that this thing won't be fixed until August, this one will surpass that and then your statement, which i misinterpreted (sorry) will indeed be correct.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 1, 2010 1:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

Mencken

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Jun 1, 2010 1:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

You're right! That's what I get for "Lazy typing". I didn't proof read my rant. It's kind of pathetic because the "N" button isn't even that close to the "L" button.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 1, 2010 1:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism. Corrected Bhopal disaster numbers

No biggie - just want people to know who to look for. Love some of his writings.

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Poster: ducats Date: Jun 1, 2010 2:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

bobs shorts?

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jun 1, 2010 2:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

bobs shorts = jerry's altamont?

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: May 31, 2010 8:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Lazy Journalism (non Dead)

I remember Bhopal . The photos of whole families , corpses on the street . Like the Kurds in Halabja that Saddam gassed in '88 . Lots of children .
The Indian Govt. wanted 3.3 billion from UCC , they settled 15 years later for 470 million .

However , the root argument stands . If you do not drill for oil ( ....if I had a milkshake , and you had a milkshake ....) how do you meet this countries energy needs ? Coal ? NG ? Nuclear ? Do you really think that oil is not going to be tapped ? Oil fields , which the Gulf is , can be sucked dry from great distances away . Which various countries are doing ( Mex. , Ven. ), but also many private concerns , the majority Chinese . That oil , all of it , is coming out of that field , one way or another .
If BP has exposure , ( I think it does , big - time ) they will pay . I want to know why we allow a type of drilling procedure that you do not have an extremely high % of capping if need be . Plus a back up .